This episode of Awakening Conversations is a deeply important and courageous dialogue about the hidden dynamics of spiritual power, the subtle manipulation that can exist behind charismatic leadership, and the cost of silence in spiritual communities. It’s a conversation about what happens when language, trust, and influence are used not to liberate but to control.
Centered around the recent public attention on Marc Gafni, especially following his appearance on the Aubrey Marcus podcast, this episode speaks to the collective discomfort many felt but couldn’t explain. It examines how spiritual ideals can be distorted, how confusion is created to protect those in power, and why even the most intelligent and well-intentioned people can find themselves entangled in systems of harm.
We’re joined in this episode by Donna Zerner, a former publishing consultant and long-time insider in the spiritual and self-help world. In the early 2000s, Donna became closely involved with Marc Gafni—professionally and personally. What began as admiration for his teachings soon revealed itself to be a disorienting and morally compromising experience. Since stepping away, Donna has become a confidant to dozens of others who share similar stories—many of whom have never spoken publicly.
In this conversation, she shares her journey with remarkable honesty and compassion—not to punish, but to shed light on patterns that need to be seen. Her story is a mirror for many who have questioned their own intuition in spiritual spaces, and an invitation to remember that discernment is not cynicism—it is wisdom in action.
This episode is for anyone seeking to understand how spiritual trust can be misused, how to recognize the signs of manipulation, and how to reclaim their voice in the face of silence.
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